It’s currently 2016, which means it’s been many moons since the modern woman did away with the notion that she should care what men think about her makeup. That is, and always has been, a fallacy—but there’s a whole other physical problem presented by the part of the venn diagram where “makeup” and “lovers” meet in the middle. That part is called kissing.

The possibility of getting up close and personal, whether it’s with a known quantity or perfect stranger, should not pose a threat to your ability to wear red lipstick or pink lipstick or black lipstick (or no lipstick at all, for that matter, but that’s not the point). Just about every brand ever has promised some kind of kiss-proof formula at some point in time, but the question of which ones can actually follow through on that “guarantee” has always been up for debate.

True, we’ve all been told not to believe everything we read on the internet, but when multiple sources are in agreement, that has to mean something in the way of truth. (Citation needed.) So back to those kiss-proof lipsticks: when in doubt, turn to the wealth of beauty knowledge on Reddit, which is actually useful for some things that aren’t porn—who would have known? These five formulas come highly recommended as the best kiss-proof lipsticks around. If you don’t quite believe it, go ahead and try ’em yourself.